Everyone Says DOGE Failed. An Insider Says You Got the Story Wrong.

Summary

The interview presents former Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) official Tyler Hassen’s case that DOGE’s record is more complicated than the claim that it simply failed. Hassen, who worked for nearly six months and held a senior role at the Department of the Interior, argues that DOGE uncovered significant waste and organizational dysfunction, but that its work was poorly explained to the public and sometimes carried out imperfectly.

Hassen’s approach

Drawing on experience improving struggling energy and industrial businesses, Hassen focused on contracts, grants, and staffing. He says he contacted hundreds of Interior contract managers to ask whether spending was necessary, but often found no one able to explain or take responsibility for particular contracts.

Hassen says many civil servants were hardworking and well-intentioned, even as the systems around them were inefficient.

Problems at the Interior Department

Hassen describes 50 separate HR offices serving about 65,000 employees, with more than 2,000 HR staff. He also says the department had 18 chief information officers and 19 disconnected permit systems.

In his account, the fragmented systems contributed to an estimated $1.2 billion in waste and a backlog of more than 160,000 permits, with an average processing time of four years.

The California water-pump episode

Hassen says that shortly after the Pacific Palisades fire began, only one of six pumps at the Jones Pumping Plant was operating. He and colleagues pressed officials to restart more pumps, and he says the number operating rose to five within a week.

He acknowledges that some pumps might have restarted anyway, but argues that the fifth would not have restarted without intervention because agencies hesitated over regulatory issues involving fish and water flows. Critics disputed the significance of DOGE’s role and raised concerns about harm to fish.

The customer-survey contract

Hassen recounts finding a proposed, multiyear contract worth about $830 million for customer-satisfaction surveys that he says few or no departments were using. He describes the sample surveys as extremely basic and says spending on them had already reached roughly $100–200 million.

He also says DOGE required his approval for contracts above $50,000 and that its work stopped some waste before contracts were signed—not just through cancellations afterward.

DOGE’s pace and Elon Musk

Hassen defends DOGE’s fast pace as an effort to act before entrenched systems could block changes and while the political opportunity lasted. He praises Elon Musk’s work ethic, patriotism, and ability to absorb complex information.

Hassen concedes that DOGE’s forceful style angered people and that the team could have communicated its work more effectively. He says coverage shifted away from DOGE after the tariff announcement and that the team let others define its public image.

Cuts and criticism

Hassen was not directly involved in USAID and declines to assess claims about its effects. Regarding staffing reductions, he says more than 90% were voluntary departures, including through deferred-resignation arrangements, and describes them as a comparatively humane way to reduce the workforce.

He also stresses that DOGE made mistakes and that its work was not perfect.

Debt and public responsibility

Hassen argues that government should be held to a high standard because taxes are compelled from citizens. He warns that rising federal debt and interest costs could seriously burden families, citing projections that debt could reach $100 trillion within roughly 20 years and interest costs could rise to $3.5 trillion.

He says improving government efficiency should be a bipartisan effort and suggests that states create efficiency offices to track federal funds.

People and personal costs

Hassen says DOGE included 20 women, contrary to the image of the team as consisting only of “tech bros.” He describes receiving threatening postcards at home and being approached by someone claiming to be Antifa.

Despite those experiences, he says he would serve again and hopes more skilled people from business, engineering, law, and other fields will undertake nonpartisan public service.

Presenters and contributors

• Rob Montz — Host and interviewer
• Tyler Hassen — Guest and former DOGE official