Video summary
Don't Wait For The Drop: Mastering Offensive Sell Rules | Investing with IBD Podcast
Main summary
Key takeaways
Guests / Context
- Episode of Investing with IBD Podcast (dated May 13, 2026).
- Presenters:
- Justin Nielsen (host)
- Connor Bates and Ted Zang — Rever Asset Management
- Also referenced: Don Vanderborg (working alongside the team).
Core Market / Leadership Monitoring (Trend-Gauge Framework)
They use a “trend gauge” style monitoring approach at the start of videos, organized into four sections, with leaders emphasized (based on price action relative to moving averages).
21 over 21
- Built every weekend.
- Includes 21 stocks trading above the 21-day moving average.
- Broad coverage across many industry groups (not limited to one theme like semiconductors/AI).
- Composition includes:
- Stocks they own
- Stocks they are actively looking to buy
Turbo 12
- Similar concept to 21/21, but targeted for:
- Lower liquidity
- More high-beta names
- Liquidity rule of thumb:
- Turbo 12 includes names trading about ≥ $60M average daily dollar volume
- Versus 21/21 at ≥ ~$100M
- Access constraint:
- Mentioned Turboction AUM ~ $40M+ (vs Growction ~ $300M–$400M), which influences what they can access.
Additional “leaders grading” lenses
- They also reference RG8 and “Turbo2” style categorization as additional lenses for leader selection and risk grading (without precise numerical definitions in the excerpt).
Handling Correlation / Concentration Risk
- Even “different” industry group picks can remain highly correlated to AI.
- They avoid forced diversification:
- Not forcing uncorrelated names like BABA
- Not adding random staples “just to diversify”
- Key caution:
- When broad market correlation rises (especially during selloffs), diversification often doesn’t help much.
- So they rely more heavily on risk rules.
Risk Management Methodology: “Rebar”
Definition
- Rebar = Rever Estimated Balance at Risk
How it’s calculated (explicit process)
- Updated every night after the market close.
- Uses closing values for each stock.
- Adjusts stop losses for every position, including layered stops (e.g., sell half at a first stop, half at a lower stop).
- Computes estimated portfolio downside if every stock hits its stop the next day.
Why they use it
- Helps avoid intraday panic driven by open P&L swings.
- If rebar becomes very high, it’s a warning that positions are too extended.
- In that case, it may be prudent to trim into strength or reduce exposure.
- They try to incorporate “overshoot” risk for rare outliers (e.g., DeepSeek), while acknowledging black swan limits.
Offensive Selling (Selling into Strength) Rules & Actions
General stop/exit behavior
- New positions:
- If they hit their stop → exit (“out”).
- Profitable positions:
- Prefer to wait for market close and avoid intraday panic.
- Stops are typically based on closing basis and trailing moving averages such as:
- 8 EMA, 21 EMA
- sometimes references like 50-day / 10-week
- Exogenous shocks / extreme breaks:
- If a stock drops dramatically (example given: down ~30% back to break-even), they may cut immediately (“ask questions later”),
- with the possibility of reentering if conditions reset.
ATR-based trimming (key explicit rule)
A primary offensive selling rule:
- Trim when price is ≥ 10 ATR above the 50-day moving average
Example: Micron (MU)
- Built through a base breakout
- Started April 21 (inside day)
- Added April 22 (base breakout)
- Continued trailing higher via EMAs until:
- It hit the 10 ATR level around May 6–May 7
- Action:
- Cut ~50% once it became > ~10% of the portfolio
- After trimming:
- The remainder trails 8/21 EMA, accepting profit volatility.
- If acceleration continues into “climax” behavior:
- They reference William O’Neal IBD climax sell rules, including:
- Exhaustion often occurs 15–20 ATRs above the 50-day
- Watch for large daily spreads/gaps
- Multiple gaps in a row
- Mentioned extreme moves above the 200-day can reach roughly ~100%–200%+ (as stated)
- They reference William O’Neal IBD climax sell rules, including:
“Stop-too-far” problem when extended
- When the moving-average stop is very far away, behavior depends on:
- how much you’re willing to give back
- your cushion/personality
- Mitigation:
- Sell into strength as it rises
- Holding through huge ATR extensions is difficult
- Example idea:
- Holding something like AOI to the 50-day could imply around ~40% pullback risk (illustrative statement).
Acceptance: you don’t need the exact top
- They emphasize you don’t need perfect timing.
- Concept attributed to Livermore: you can’t catch the first or last eighth.
- Climax suspicion signals:
- “shooting-star” type candles
- multiple gap-ups in a row followed by closes near lows
- very high volume on exhaustion days
- Even then, you can still sell a “good area” without knowing the precise peak.
Buyback Rules (Re-entry After a Trim/Sell)
Re-entry must be based on a valid entry point
- Buying back requires an independent valid entry, not just chasing missed upside.
- If the next move suggests you were wrong:
- Reenter right away (mentally: the market showed your decision was wrong).
- They reject re-buying just because it’s “more extended than when you sold.”
Example of a valid buyback
- Cipher (CIFR):
- Setup described around the 8/21 reclaim area
- Includes earnings-day behavior and reclaim of the 8A.
Earnings gappers / retakes
- Re-entry for earnings gappers can occur on:
- Retake of the gap day low
- Reclaim of key levels / flags
News + Macro Filter (How They Use It)
- They monitor upcoming events such as:
- Fed minutes
- CPI, PPI
- retail and job numbers
- Main rule:
- Price reaction matters more than the news itself.
“News failure event” example
- In the discussed day:
- Hottest PPI since Dec 2022
- plus earlier bad CPI
- That would typically hurt, especially for:
- small caps
- speculative growth
- Yet markets did not sell off → interpreted as a bullish “news failure event.”
- Concept referenced from Jason Shapiro:
- “news failure event”
- Emphasis:
- Markets are forward-looking, so the move may already be priced in.
ETFs in Their Process
- They do use ETFs.
- Benefits cited:
- diversification
- volatility smoothing
Leveraged S&P exposure
- Mentioned leveraged S&P ETFs and 1x leveraged S&P ETFs for trend-following using a moving average “power trend” framework (referenced via 20/21/50/200 style MA language).
Sector ETFs to reduce single-stock risk
- Example approach:
- WGMI as a “basket cover” for certain theme names, to avoid having to pick only one “leader” among correlated small caps.
Hedging vs smoothing
- ETFs can smooth drawdowns:
- helpful when clients are closer to retirement and need smaller portfolio swings.
Single-Stock Leveraged / Inverse Hedging (MUD and Inverse ETFs)
- They generally prefer selling/trimming over hedging with inverse ETFs.
- Example discussed:
- MUD (single-stock bear 1x on Micron) as a potential hedge.
- Their view:
- hedging too much can be risky because it’s easy to hedge at the wrong spot.
- Semiconductors hedge attempt:
- They tried a semiconductors “Sox/s hedge” (subtitle-corrupted wording)
- got blown out when the market stayed strong
- closed it out.
Taxable accounts
- For taxable-client portfolios:
- Growction hedges more often.
- Rationale:
- legacy positions with huge unrealized gains are hedged using inverse ETFs
- inverse ETFs can help when options aren’t available, avoiding option selection/timing complexities.
Notable Tickers / Instruments Mentioned
Individual stocks / tickers
- Micron (MU)
- AOI
- Aehr (AEHR)
- Corning (GLW)
- Akamai (AKAM) (referred to as “Akami, aka M”)
- Fastly (FSLY) (earnings drop around ~27% mentioned)
- Cipher (CIFR)
- IRNE, APLD (as referenced in the discussion)
- Bloom Energy (ticker not explicitly stated)
- DeepSeek (exogenous shock example; not a ticker)
- BABA (example they do not include just for diversification)
- QUALCOMM (mentioned conceptually)
- Uranium-related references:
- URA, UR
- CCJ, UU
- Uranium basket and ETF mention:
- WGMI (also tied to uranium basket discussion)
- Other mentions:
- Rocket Lab (ticker not explicitly stated)
- AMPX
- Intel (generic reference)
- AMD/ARM and other AI/semicon leaders (generic references)
- Subtitle-corrupted “Marll/MAR LL” likely intended as Marvell (MRVL)
ETFs / instruments
- S&P ETFs (leveraged and 1x leveraged)
- WGMI
- MUD (single-stock inverse/bear 1x concept discussed)
- A subtitle-corrupted “Sox/s socks S hedge” appears, but is not reliably identifiable in the excerpt.
Themes / Sectors Referenced
- AI infrastructure
- Semiconductors
- Memory / DRAM
- Cloud / edge computing / data center / hosting agents
- Fiber optics (via Corning)
- Uranium
- Growth & protection / volatility smoothing
- Leveraged momentum / high-beta momentum
Key Numbers / Thresholds Mentioned
- 21/21 and Turbo 12 liquidity thresholds:
- 21/21 around $100M+ average daily dollar volume
- Turbo 12 around $60M+
- Rebar:
- no single numeric threshold quoted, but “very very high” implies positions are too extended.
- MU offensive selling example:
- Trim trigger: ≥ 10 ATR above the 50-day
- Action timing: around May 6–May 7
- Position reached > 10% of portfolio → trimmed ~50%
- Climax / O’Neal-style guidance:
- Exhaustion often ~15–20 ATRs above the 50-day
- Extreme moves above the 200-day discussed as roughly 100%–200%+
- AOI risk illustration:
- holding to the 50-day could imply roughly ~40% pullback risk (illustrative)
- FSLY:
- earnings drop cited around ~27%
- Volatility smoothing target example for certain clients:
- 10–15% drawdown tolerance (vs higher-ATR growth tolerance)
Explicit Cautions / Disclosures (from the excerpt)
- No explicit “not financial advice” disclaimer appears in the transcript excerpt.
- Repeated risk cautions:
- AI-driven correlation risk
- black swan / overshoot limits
- importance of cutting losses early
- avoid hedging at the wrong time; prefer plan-based trims
Losers / Cutting Losses (Risk Control Examples)
URA example (uranium-related)
- Entered May 4 after breakout above an inside day high.
- Squatted, then broke out May 6, then became choppy.
- Eventually closed out below key moving averages:
- mentions 8/21 levels and a recent day
- Stop detail (subtitle-imprecise):
- around ~53.5 / 53.3 and ~3.5 area
AMPX (earnings cushion checklist)
- They used implied move to estimate earnings risk:
- “If the stock did 2x the implied move, what would the damage be to the portfolio?”
- AMPX had enough “cushion,” so they held into earnings.
- It then gapped down ~20% on earnings, wiping profits.
- They sold immediately after the adverse reaction—described as a failed “plan,” but consistent with the process.
Rocket Lab
- Held into earnings without enough cushion.
- Exited after price violated:
- “closed below 8 and 21”
- Takeaway:
- Process over outcome
- reduce downside quickly when the plan is invalidated.
Presenter / Source Names Mentioned
- Justin Nielsen (host)
- Connor Bates — Rever Asset Management
- Ted Zang — Rever Asset Management
- Don Vanderborg — Rever Asset Management (referenced as co-decision maker / frequent guest)
- Jason Shapiro (source for “news failure event” concept)
- Jesse Livermore (quoted conceptually)
- William O’Neal (referenced for climax sell rules)
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