He Served 8 Popes. Here's What He Saw in the Vatican.

Monsignor Karel Kasteel on the Vatican and the Church

Monsignor Karel Kasteel, reflecting on seven decades in the Vatican and service under eight popes, says the Curia is often misunderstood as a place dominated by secrecy and wrongdoing. In his experience, scandals attract attention while the largely unrecognized work and sacrifice of its staff go unnoticed. He says the Curia’s central responsibility is to help the Pope make well-informed decisions, while acknowledging that staff and popes can make mistakes.

Kasteel recalls arriving in Rome in 1956, when Italy was still poor, and says the Vatican helped local people through practical efforts such as distributing bread. He also describes meeting Mother Teresa through his work in the Curia. He traces some early signs of change in the Church to the Netherlands, where postwar social shifts and movement from rural communities to cities weakened many people’s ties to religious life.

The Second Vatican Council

As an aide to the secretary general, Kasteel attended the Second Vatican Council throughout. He remembers intense debate between those pressing for change and those urging caution. He regards the Council as necessary to help a rapidly growing, worldwide Church communicate its enduring message across different cultures.

Kasteel says doctrine does not change, but the Church’s understanding of it can deepen, and its teaching must be expressed in ways people can understand. He considers the Council’s work unfinished because its decisions still need to be implemented. He sees listening and working together—associated with synodality—as part of that process.

Conclaves and the Curia

On the 2005 conclave that elected Benedict XVI, Kasteel describes the logistical challenges of the new arrangements and his role in organizing them. He says conclaves are prayerful but not free of political considerations; in his view, those considerations do not determine the result. He points to the cardinals’ pre-conclave meetings as an important forum for expressing views and says he never personally noticed spies or efforts to manipulate events.

Kasteel confirms that some Curia officials struggled with Pope Francis’s vision, particularly because Francis arrived without Benedict XVI’s long familiarity with Vatican procedures. Tensions could follow disagreements or appointments based on incomplete information, he says, while emphasizing that the Curia can also make mistakes.

He credits Pope Leo with stressing Church unity and continuing efforts to promote peace. Kasteel also repeats Leo’s sentiment that popes pass away while the Curia remains.

Unity and Vatican Controversies

Kasteel argues that Catholics should work to remain united despite differences, including disputes over liturgy and the legacy of Vatican II. He says some abuses were committed in the Council’s name and that the Church has had to repair the resulting divisions.

On several Vatican controversies, Kasteel says he believes John Paul I died naturally. He describes Cardinal Siri as a strong contender in the 1958 conclave but does not endorse claims that Siri was secretly elected. Kasteel believes the Third Secret of Fatima has been fully revealed and says he knows of no information about Emanuela Orlandi beyond what is already public.

He also dismisses many claims of secret societies within the Vatican, while acknowledging that individual wrongdoing is possible in a large institution.

Presenters and Contributors

• Robert Duncan: Interviewer
• Monsignor Karel Kasteel: Guest