Grimes Interview (Ft. Ivy Wolk)

Recap

Andrew Callaghan and Ivy Wolk sit down with Grimes for a sprawling conversation that moves from AI and internet culture to cancel culture, gender, parenting, and the future of humanity. The discussion is thoughtful but often funny, with the interviewers pushing Grimes to explain how her artistic life connects to her interest in technology.

Grimes traces some of that interest back to childhood: her father introduced her to Dune and The Lord of the Rings, which left her thinking about the dangers of machines. Technology also made her music career possible—she recalls making music on a laptop and sharing early tracks online—so she sees artists as natural participants in conversations about emerging tech. She argues that the tech world can underestimate music’s emotional impact, while art can make abstract technological questions feel immediate.

AI is the interview’s biggest topic. Grimes is wary of superintelligence and wonders whether future systems could develop something like consciousness, but she also believes AI could help in medicine and education if it is used carefully. She’s skeptical of AI-generated music as a replacement for human creativity, and worries that relying on chatbots and automated tools too early could weaken people’s ability to learn and think for themselves. At the same time, she sees a possible role for AI tutors and says children need “digital hygiene,” much like sex education.

The conversation takes a more speculative turn when they discuss whether machines might feel hurt or resentful. Grimes says some people in machine psychology take the possibility seriously and that it may be wise to treat advanced AI with care rather than assume it could never become conscious. The interviewers challenge how plausible these ideas are, and the exchange remains uncertain rather than reaching a firm conclusion. On the question of uploading a mind to a computer, they express different reactions: one is intrigued by the possibility, while another questions whether a digital copy would really be you.

They also get into online “cancellation” and public backlash. Grimes says she has faced criticism since she was young, and that the hostility intensified around her high-profile relationship with Elon Musk—especially after they broke up. The group distinguishes between ordinary online criticism and being pushed out of a real-life community, and discusses how guilt by association can turn a person into a symbol for arguments they may not share. Grimes connects this to older artists such as Oscar Wilde and Baudelaire, whose work challenged social norms, and argues that pop culture and comedy can make difficult subjects accessible.

A long section examines the way online politics can become punitive and isolating. The speakers argue that people are often reduced to labels, while calls for accountability can sometimes become ostracism without any path back. They worry that this can push people toward groups willing to accept them, even if those groups have harmful politics. In a lighter stretch, Andrew turns the discussion into a rapid-fire test of left-wing slogans. “Abolish the police” gets a nuanced response about reform and the need for public safety; “kill all the billionaires” leads to a debate about inequality, public works, and whether wealthy people should contribute more to society.

The jokes keep interrupting the big ideas. When Grimes admits she struggles with basic computer tasks, Ivy quips, “So, you and Joe Biden,” prompting a quick apology and a joke about keeping their hearts open. A proposal for wealthy people to do public service becomes a debate over whether Jeff Bezos should work in a “Macaroni Grill”—which Grimes initially suspects may be an imaginary restaurant. They also joke about prediction-market sponsorship offers, with a creator’s reported six-figure offer prompting the question of whether they’d advertise opiates.

Grimes is more optimistic when talking about art. She praises the creativity of the 2020s and argues that striking music, fashion, and visual work are getting overlooked amid the constant stream of online content. The group contrasts using a phone as a portal to new ideas with getting trapped in algorithmic junk, then swaps stories about younger kids, AI-written homework, bizarre memes, and how quickly children encounter adult content. They end up stressing that society should care about children even when people don’t have kids themselves.

The final stretch returns to the future: Grimes is especially interested in women’s roles, family structures, and making child-rearing less isolating. She imagines more communal support for parents and discusses whether mothers should receive greater financial support. The interview closes with an oddly meandering music tangent about Los Angeles rappers, including a mix-up over Drake and Drakeo the Ruler, before the guests thank one another and sign off.

Personalities

• Grimes — Musician and interview guest
• Ivy Wolk — Interviewer and co-host
• Andrew Callaghan — Channel 5 host and interviewer