The Pagan Gods Really Exist - with Dr. Zac Porcu

Main ideas, concepts, and lessons

Core thesis for the course

Dr. Zach Porcu argues that late antique Christians (especially Justin Martyr and Tertullian) believed pagan gods were real—not merely “fake.”

• In this framework, pagan gods are “fallen gods”: real spiritual beings.
• If pagan gods are real spiritual agents, then it changes how human history is read, because major historical and cultural events may be connected to their influence and activity.

Course scope and structure: a “demonological history of the world”

The course aims to retell a “cosmic story” of human history using both biblical and pagan material.

It claims that many myths follow a shared narrative pattern:

• creation → fall → redemption
• fallen gods appear as recurring central actors

After laying down this origin narrative, the course asks what happens next:

• the fallen gods do not simply disappear
• instead, they transition into later forms of influence over history
• this includes analysis of early church fathers and related theology (e.g., Origen)

Central hypothesis about Western civilization

Western history is interpreted as a cycle:

1. fallen gods seek to reassert dominion over humans
2. Christendom dethrones them (Christ defeats/draws boundaries against demonic power)
3. later periods show a resurgence of pagan/demonic imagery and influence

A key example is the Renaissance onward, used to illustrate increasing pagan imagery in secular and public life.

Cultural “tug-of-war” framing

The discussion highlights a paradox: even “secular humanist” ideologies often reintroduce pagan imagery, gods, and names.

• Example: the apotheosis of George Washington in Washington, D.C. is presented as a kind of “pagan” symbolic re-centering.

Connection between science, occultism, and technology

The dialogue challenges a “sterilized” account of the Scientific Revolution by arguing that it never fully stopped being cultic/occultic.

Examples cited include:

• Kepler wrote Somnium, involving travel to the moon via a demon (through a witch-mother)
• Newton is described as an alchemist
• Laplace is referenced through a predictive-determinism thought experiment (compared to “AI-style maximal prediction”)

Broader claims made:

• the distinction between technology vs. magic is overstated
• technology can be “misunderstood magic,” rather than vice versa
• machines/knowledge can enact a kind of “will” that surpasses the inventor’s intentions

How to handle “gods vs. angels” (theological problem)

A key question is raised: if Zeus/Jove are “fallen angels,” how do we explain why Christian theology sometimes repurposes divine titles/imagery—and why authors like C.S. Lewis seem to treat paganism as containing distorted but real principles?

Two options are proposed:

1. All pagan gods are wholly bad
   • discard them because Christ will fully defeat/chain them
2. Some gods fell, but a deeper “true will” remains
   • they are then twisted by the evil one

The second approach is supported via a discussion of Origen’s hierarchy:

• higher angelic spirits exist
• fallen gods become demons
• they are described as being “grounded” into the lower air/atmosphere (conceptually “below,” as opposed to “outer space”)

Pagan religions are also described as imitation—mask-like counterfeit worship that steals what is due to properly ordered cosmos.

Why pagan societies could still be “functional”

Even corrupted spiritual powers are argued to maintain a semblance of order:

• complete chaos would stop worship and sacrifice
  • “you can’t kill the host” argument
• therefore fallen powers keep systems stable enough to continue extracting attention and devotion

This is used to explain how ancient civilizations could function for long periods, sometimes with internal moral limits and eventual opposition (e.g., opposition to human sacrifice).

Cosmological symbolism: moon boundary, change, and “king of this world”

Multiple frameworks are linked through a cosmological/astronomical symbolism:

• In Lewis’s Space Trilogy, gods are bound by the orbit of the moon, creating a barrier.
• Scriptural/theological language is connected to “spirits of the air” (via St. Paul).
• The “evil one” is described as ruling the world of change rather than everything absolutely.

A philosophical/astronomical image is used:

• above the moon: principle/stability
• below the moon: change
  • waxing/waning of the moon is treated as an intuitive sign

What surprised Dr. Porcu

Porcu reports initial surprise that scholarship (including his doctoral research) led to the counterintuitive claim that Christians believed pagan gods were real and tied to late antique magic/demonology.

More recently:

• after studying Oswald Spengler and Decline of the West, Porcu claims Spengler “proves too much”
• Porcu therefore interprets “the West” as roughly 1000 AD to now, rather than beginning with Plato/Aristotle

He argues the West is “Faustian”—essentially a Babel-building/sorcerer culture:

• the medieval university project through to AI
• from Thomas Aquinas to Elon Musk
• framed as apotheosis (“man as god in the dome”) and mastery of creation via technology—analogized to Babel

Methodology / instructional elements (course design and narrative outline)

No step-by-step “how-to” instructions appear, but the course plan functions like a structured methodology. The implied outline is:

• Start with the cosmic story using mythic/biblical anchors:

  • Fall of Adam and Eve (Garden of Eden)
  • Enoch and the fall of Watchers
  • Tower of Babel
  • Prometheus (as a pagan parallel/story element)

• Synthesize myths

  • present pagan stories as participating in the same creation–fall–redemption pattern
  • argue fallen gods are the recurring agents behind these events

• Track what happens after the “fall”

  • historical/theological walkthroughs using:
    • early church fathers (Justin Martyr, Tertullian, Origen)
  • focus on how paganism changes form rather than disappears

• Analyze the rise and fall of Western civilization

  • hypothesis: fallen gods aim to reassert dominion
  • track how:
    • Christ defeats/dethrones them
    • “Christendom defeats the demons” (cross as the boundary)
    • later periods (especially the Renaissance and beyond) show pagan symbolism returning in secular spaces

• Use cultural examples to test the hypothesis

  • Renaissance/Byzantine public pagan imagery → intensification in secular contexts
  • example: Napoleon era public allegory/pagan-like figures
  • example: Washington, D.C. civic symbolism (apotheosis of Washington)

Speakers / sources featured (identified)

Speakers

• Dr. Zac Porcu (also referred to as Dr. Zach / Dr. Zach Porku)
• Jonathan Pageau (speaking as “Jonathan Pageau” / intro from “Welcome to the Symbolic World”)

Sources / referenced works and figures

• Justin Martyr
• Tertullian
• Origen
• Homer (Trojan War described)
• C.S. Lewis (Space Trilogy; also referenced for portraying the issue)
• Dante (moon/below-moon change symbolism referenced)
• Oswald Spengler (Decline of the West)
• Aristotle (moon/sublunary change concept referenced)
• Kepler (Somnium)
• Newton (alchemy mentioned)
• Laplace (demon/predictive thought experiment referenced)
• Thomas Aquinas
• Elon Musk

Elaborated biblical stories/figures

• Adam and Eve (Garden of Eden)
• Enoch and the Watchers
• Tower of Babel
• “spirits of the air” (via St. Paul)
• “garments of skin” (mentioned in later book promo material)

Mythic/pagan figure

• Prometheus

Named entities used in discussion

• Zeus, Jove
• Roman figures implied through Venus/Mars references (via Lewis-related imagery)
• Saturn (implied by associated Roman myth discussion)